Irish Country Code High Risk For Business

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If you’re going to choose a country code for your business you might want to think long and hard about choosing the .ie ccTLD.

Why?

Because if you reorganise your business you might end up losing your domain.

In several recent cases the IEDR have flatly refused to update the registrant details on domain names citing registry rules that were never applied to the initial registration.

In one recent case the domain name was registered to a limited company, as it was the limited company’s name (or very close to it). That was 6 years ago. Now in 2012 when the company needs to reorganise and do some housekeeping of their domain registration they’re being flatly refused by the IEDR.

Why?

Because the IEDR now feel that the domain name contravenes their geographical rule policy.

So the domain was “fine” for 6 years, but now isn’t?

Would you want to spend time and money investing in a business and hang it off a country code with this kind of policy?

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By Michele Neylon

Michele is founder and managing director of Irish domain registrar and hosting company Blacknight. Michele has been deeply involved in domain and internet policy discussions for more than a decade. He also co-hosts the Technology.ie podcast.

11 comments

  1. Any more detail? If the LTD is still registered in Ireland then how can they refuse the claim?

    Not overly surprised, but then again looking at .com and recent takeovers by US Govt. of certain domains I’m not sure that .ie is alone with these kinds of problems. On the face of the bodog.com seizure and subsequent release things are getting shakier and shakier the world over…

    At least IEDR isn’t taking back the domain I suppose.

    1. Richard

      There’s been several instances that I’m aware of in the last couple of months. Refusing to make any changes to a domain name can basically render it non-existent, as it can be impossible for people to administer a domain in those circumstances

      Michele

  2. You say it is because “the IEDR now feel that the domain name contravenes their geographical rule policy.”

    I take it you are actually referring to the “Registrations Policy” (?).

    Are you are saying that IEDR say that the “real and substantive connection with Ireland” that the application demonstrated was not what it claimed and that there is some issue of the applicant misleading IERD, or that it was untruthful? Or are you saying that IERD changed its mind? Or are you saying that IERD did not assess the application properly and made a mistake?

    This is important detail that would be useful to know and moreover would add significantly to the authoratativness of your post.

    Particularly given that the substantive point you appear to make is that the registrant now has no opportunity to comply with the Policy, eg by transferring the name to a subsidiary in Ireland, or opening an office, etc.

    Also, as an aside, I wonder what your experience is with the effect of the new UK companies regime, now in effect for two years or so, whereby any UK company can now argue that it has a “a real and substantive connection with Ireland” by way of its legal status or domicile that, now, can/may include Northern Ireland.

    “The implementation of the Overseas Companies Regulations 2009/1801 on 1 October 2009 introduced a single jurisdiction for overseas companies registered in England/Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. This means that there is no longer a requirement for an England/Wales or Scotland company to register a branch/UK establishment in Northern Ireland, or for a Northern Ireland company to register a branch/UK establishment in England/Wales or Scotland.”

    http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/infoAndGuide/faq/northernIreland.shtml

    1. Nic

      I’m referring to the rule which forbids the registration of a domain name that is identical to an Irish placename

      Thanks for your comment

      Michele

  3. I’m registering .ie domains for over 10 years and I completely agree with all the points above. The IEDR’s transfer system is also incredibly weak, anyone can forge a letter and move a domain from one registrar to another leaving the .ie website offline. The IEDR aren’t quick to fix these issues either, you can be left waiting 2 weeks for a response. I’ve seen domains transferred from one company to another by accident because the domain holder had the same business names. The IEDR are a relatively small registry and as one of their “Table A” registrars I cant even get through to the CEO David Curtin to talk about it. He seems to spend his life in a meeting! Its only a matter of time before a high profile domain is taken offline because of this vulnerability.

  4. The IE Domain Registry Ltd (IEDR) would like to clarify the circumstances of this case, as the initial posting is not entirely clear on the facts of the matter.

    1. The reorganisation referred to was more than just “housekeeping”. The registrant of the domain was a corporate entity, which was dissolved in February 2010. (Note 1)

    2. A new application was therefore required, in the name of a different registrant. The IEDR Registration Policy provides that “The proposed name must not contravene the geographical name regulation”. Hence the IEDR requirement to authenticate the registrant’s claim to that domain name.

    Note 1 – While the registry has no responsibility to seek out dissolved companies with registered .ie domains, it has a responsibility once it becomes aware that a registrant legal entity is in fact dissolved. This is a matter that the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement (ODCE) has taken an interest – on the basis that a website should not continue to trade after the company has been dissolved. Strictly speaking any assets of a dissolved company belong to the State.

    Regards

    IEDR Registration Services Team Lead.

    1. Its really not the IEDR’s business if a company becomes dissolved, they are not the Government or the company police. Its hard enough to do business without unfair rules like this that stops people from trying to recover their business after a bankruptcy. But there are other reasons why a company may change their Limited name and the IEDR rules just make it hard for people to do business in Ireland. The person who originally pays the bill should decide their domains fate. If the Government want to jump in and take a domain from an individual then that’s their choice. (Arguably the Government has no right to do that either but that’s a different debate)

      The response above from the IEDR’s faceless team leader confirms Michele’s original argument that .ie domains are high risk. Not only from the IEDR’s own rules but from no safety mechanism to stop fraudsters from stealing .ie domains by fax.

  5. I appreciate this blog and respect the writer.

    However the explanation by the “IEDR Registration Services Team Lead” seems reasonable and it leads me to believe that the original blog post here was misleading.

    A company that does not exist cannot be registrant of anything and therefore cannot transfer property (or rights) to anyone or anything. It does not seem unreasonable to me that a new application be sought, in the circumstances. The regulatory compliance issues here are many and potentially complex. I can envisage liability issues for a bankruptcy trustee or liquidator that IEDR would want to be careful not to become party to. All kinds of issues.

    The fairness or reasonableness of rules are one thing. Issues of regulatory compliance and enforcing those rules is another thing all together.

    I don’t doubt the central argument of this post has merit, but perhaps a little more work in making it would serve your cause better.

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